Ready for the New Mustang vs. 911 Rivalry?
What is Ford doing chasing Nürburgring lap records with a Mustang? This is territory usually owned by Porsche, who set the outright lap record in 2018 with the 919 Evo in a time of 5:19. And seemingly with each new generation of GT product, 911s have continued to beat times set by race cars and prototypes. However, with the Camaro dead (again), Ford is justified in pursuing a new rivalry, and targeting the 911 might not be as crazy as it sounds. Both history and data show that the similarities between the two companies and their two most popular performance models run deeper than you might think.
Ford and Porsche seem like automakers at opposite ends of the car-making world. They started building cars in different eras. One raced towards mass production. The other went specialized and upmarket. However, the two companies are named after their founders, and descendants of those founders still hold top positions in each. Both have deep roots in sports car racing. Ford got an overall Le Mans win first, but Porsche has more wins at the French endurance race than anybody else, and both companies won using a more-is-more approach with more money and horsepower than the competition.
Today, both the mass-producer and the sports-car maker make most of their money from building trucks and/or SUVs. They’ve used that cushion to keep their sporting lineages alive, and now their main performance models—the Mustang and 911—have become cars that come in dozens of configurations and performance levels.
The cars do have their obvious differences. The world first learned about both Mustang and 911 back in 1964, but from the beginning, Ford emphasized the Mustang’s affordable fun to a youthful audience, and that image has mostly stuck. Hagerty insurance policy and quote demographics show that this is still true. The Mustang is the more youthful car, with 67 percent of quotes from people born after 1964 compared to 62 percent for the 911. The 911 is catching up fast, though, because five years ago, the Mustang’s advantage was 13 percent, and now it is just five percent.
Looking at those quotes split into model years, we see that the Mustangs made up to about 2005 tend to have a stronger appeal among Gen X and younger enthusiasts. The share of quotes between these two cars draws closer as we look at newer cars—since the 2010 model year, the absolute difference in share has averaged about four percent, while from the 1960s through the 1990s the absolute difference averaged over 18 percent.
According to recent changes in value within the Hagerty Price Guide, we see a similar convergence. Early Mustangs and 911s have very different trajectories, but beginning around the 2005 model year and newer cars, valuation changes for the two are tracking similarly. Specifically, these data chart the percentage change in the condition #3 (“good”) value over three years, averaged across the model year.
Tracking the behavior of newer models requires looking at a different data set, as the Hagerty Price Guide doesn’t cover Mustangs after 2014 or the newest (2020+) 911s. Comparing premiums over MSRP for the 2018 Ford Mustang Shelby GT350 to the 2018 Porsche 911 GT3 reveals demand changes in similar ways since the cars were launched.
Comparing the 2018 Porsche 911 GT2 RS to the 2020 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 isn’t as clean because of the different model years, but the premium over MSRP starts to converge in 2023.
Since all Mustang GTDs are spoken for, it will be a while before the secondary market establishes itself enough to provide discernable trends. That said, if the data on the existing vehicles is anything to go by, it won’t be the least bit surprising to see the GTD following similar market trend lines to the 911’s GT products. Will it even creep up to the near-100-percent premium we’ve observed for the 911 S/T? It’s too soon to tell, but we expect this Ford vs. Porsche rivalry to continue to heat up.
Two different markets despite the price. Other than the rare pricey GTD Mustang they really don’t compete. Plus that GTB is going to have to find another 15 seconds to beat a 911 GT3.
I agree. I admit that I have a bias towards Porsche. Porsche put themselves on a pedestal from day one in 1948 and has been able to maintain that position. It is now a sports car company that also makes various four door models, however, the four door models also hold a position on the pedestal. Ford’s claim to fame was mass production and affordability. Now they need to change that position and build a pedestal. It will take a very long time for normal customers to accept that. I’m not sure that replacing affordability with higher profit is a good idea. Ford is now a company that made passenger cars and now also wants to make sports cars. It’s original bread and butter purpose is gone. Their EV market didn’t work out like they wanted. This two car Porsche owner sees a picture of desperation. I will be extremely impressed if they pull this off. It’s not quite a Hail Mary pass, however it is the 4th quarter, they are behind and the injuries have made a negative impact.
Don’t forget, this a company that built the GT40, went to Lemans and beat a company on a higher pedestal than Porche. More recently, built the Ford GT, two versions, both of which the market has placed on a very high pedestal showing as much as 400% appreciation in 20 years (along with winning Lemans again). Never underestimate what Ford and GM can do when they put their mind to it (and ignore the accountants).
This is true. Look at Cadillac and the Blackwing models and what they are doing in the IMSA GTP class.
But are they Cadillacs, or bought racers simply carrying their sponsor’s name?
Bravo!
Didn’t Porsche almost close their doors? Wasn’t the SUV that saved them.
They weren’t that close but certainly werent financially healthy. The 986/996 probably did more to ‘save’ Porsche at the time, then the SUV’s certainly added much needed margin to the offerings. The 993 is a wonderful car but aside from performance was a bit of an anachronism when when launched. Rain gutters and a somewhat less than user friendly clutch in the 90’s?? That said, we love our 993 and the other three Porsches (three different gen 911’s and a Boxster S) and while I respect the Mustang, you really cannot compare the two. Component quality, design and, importantly, relative ease of maintenance (for mid and rear engine cars), favor Porsche….and the driving.
Always feels good to be put on a pedestal. Then again there’s always someone who wants to knock you off of it.
What a bunch of horses**t… or Pony Pooh… The Mustang has become an overpriced nameplate that is an engineering laggard, while Porsche continually pushes the envelope of racing cars built for the street.
Cannot disagree with your observation. But, frankly, the only thing that matters in the end is the performance wrung out of the product.
What would the Porsche be like if it cost the same as Mustang? It’s not that one car is crap and the other is great, it’s about how well these cars do with the MSRP they have to work with.
Looks like people born before 1964 don’t matter.
It’s a dying market! 😆
At 78 and counting, I don’t like the implications of your remark, not that I can do anything about it!!
I agree with you. Were the same age and I’ve owned 2 911 Turbo’s the nearly last air cooled in 1996 and an early 2000’s li was liquid cooled. My present drive is either a 2013 ZL1 Camaro convertible 6 speed or a 2016 Shelby Mustang Track Pack. Although there are interesting similarities they are vastly different vehicles and provide distinct driving experiences and hopefully always were will.
There is a big difference between developing and racing a GT40 and pushing out Porsche 911’s. Porsche never stopped. Yes, 2004-06 Porsche Carrera GT the 2013-15 Porsche 918 Spyder could be on a par with the limited production of the successful GT40s. The point still being Porsche never stopped production of its pedestal cars while Ford did. One exception for Porsche, the 904. A race car for the street which morphed into the 906, a full race car and spawned the 906, 907, 908 and on. Fords going to need a bigger commitment. This isn’t Ford vs 911, it’s Ford vs survival.
The 911 and Mustang are not even in the same segment. Just because Ford made an ultra rare ultra high price model based on the cheaper car does not make them market competitors.
To be honest the Mustang is really a segment of one anymore.
Even the Corvette is not a 911 Competitor If you go to the base prices the Corvette is more a Cayman competitor.
To build 300 Near 400K priced Mustangs is not moving the base car status anyplace.
Ford should have developed the Ford GT with the V8 to be a Corvette challenger. But today they have a lot more issues to worry about than cars like this. The Mustang is not going to bail Ford out of their troubles.
I don’t think comparing MSRP to MSRP is a sound argument. American cars have always been a great value proposition compared to the price of the Europeans. Corvette is ABSOLUTELY a 911 competitor at a better price when you look at intent and performance.
I don’t think Mustang has always been a 911 competitor, but these days, the Mustang is a great sports car and not a point and shoot muscle car it used to be, so I think there are Mustangs that are not the GTD that could put a hurting on a 911 (maybe not a GT3 or GT2) on the track.
You make some good points for sure, but the base logic is shaky.
GM is the company in trouble.
I feel Ford should have kept the Mustang in the affordable class and built something else with a new name in the Corvette price range. No matter how nice of a Mustang, Camaro, Challenger you build the name will never have the same psychological cache of a Corvette , Porsche, etc. and will keep people from buying them when for the same money you can get the name vehicle.
Cars are forever tied to the Marketing/Advertising game.
Michael Brewer, are you some kind of wheeler dealer?
🤣😂🤣
No, they’re not competitors, never have been, never will be.
Just look at their respective prices.
Even Frank Bullit’s girlfriend had to make do with a 356 (probably bought used) when he had his Mustang.
So, they get more quotes from older people for Porsches. Gee, ya think?
The most depreciated late model 911 is still worth more than a new Mustang.
But younger people (you don’t say how young) are getting quotes for 911s…young enthusiasts today do have money and 911s are intergenerational classics.
I happen to own both, a 911 Carrera 4S and a Mustang GT Convertible. As different as these two cars are, there are striking similarities. Quick, relatively comfortable, and a total blast to drive. I’ve put over 100,000 miles on both of them.
The one thing they have in common is they are both porkers in their present form.
Yes and no. Compared to what they once were? Yes. Those days are gone… That said, I agree and one of the reasons we pulled the trigger early this year on the outgoing 911 Carrera T w/ the manual and essentially no ‘techy’ options, eg 4 wheel steering. For what the car is now, it feels small, especially when pushed. The problem it has, along with most if not all new sports cars is they are wonderful, awesome, etc. but are so good that if you try to do anything exciting w/ them on public roads, you should be in jail 🙂
What many people fail to take into account is that in many ways designing/ engineering a vehicle on and for a more modest price can be much more challenging than a ‘the skies the limit project’. This also applies to many things of like kind. Where there are a very strictly defined parameters of what you can and can not do,these constraints can and frequently do lead to innovation. The need to rethink re-imagine and find a better solution. In architecture for example many renowned designers have taken on the task of developing affordable housing that is still stylish. A home one can be proud of. Few have succeeded despite their best efforts. Doing more for less is more problematic than being given a blank check. So while many might say you can’t compare these cars in many ways you can.
Come on, Mustangs and Porsche 911s have been competing since the 60s. Ford drops out now and then but they aren’t known as a Performance car manufacture like Porsche. I’m glad Ford took on the Ring with the Mustang. I know it’s all about bragging rights. Let’s face it, I’d be surprised if there is 1 person reading these posts who could reach 90% of either cars potential on the track and that’s if you could get a hold of one. Both companies are the opposite of Ferrari, who only sold street cars to finance their racing (at least back when Enzo ran the show).
There is no comparison, while I do like the Mustang the build quality and engineering is on different levels. I used to rent Mustang convertibles when I travelled south and on my last trip I had a 4cyl eco boost with around 20K miles on it. POS! The turbo was blown, head gasket was leaking and the rear quarter windows would not close without pulling them up to assist. This was a major pain since the windows go down with the roof and they can only be raised by the drivers door. So getting the window to close and not leave a 2 inch gap when locking the car required some severe stretching on my part to hit the drivers door switch while tugging on the passenger rear window. Took the car back and got one with less miles so it had less problems but still crap…the windows on the 2nd car only left a 1 inch gap… the transmission was abysmal. It had a performance setting that was useless and rough. I know these were rentals and the bottom of the range but I have owned 914’s and 944’s and been in a few older well worn 911’s and none of them showed such a lack of quality.
It’s a lot harder to make a good sports car for 80k than one for 200k.
@Michael D Taberner – Because Mustang rental fleet cars are maintained and driven in a manner similar to privately-owned 911s. 🙄