Media | Articles
Piston Slap: What Does It Take To Sell Cars to Police Fleets?
Jay writes:
Sajeev,
My question has to do with police fleets, and law enforcement vehicles. Ford had a great run with the Crown Victoria patrol cars in the ’90s and ’00s. As a kid, I remember Dodge Diplomat cop cars everywhere. Will the typical police sedan be gone if the Dodge Charger goes away?
We really are in an SUV world now, huh?
Sajeev answers:
Yep! This is the world we live in, but sedans aren’t completely extinct.
I still see 15-plus-year-old Crown Vics piloted by Houston police, presumably because they are good backup vehicles when Explorers, Tahoes, Chargers, etc. are down for maintenance. No matter the reason, seeing them gives me joy for personal reasons.
The Charger is being rebooted for 2025, and will offer a sedan with the coupe that we’ve already seen out and about. If you ask me, a Chrysler Fury sedan on the same platform (sold at the same dealership) would have been the proper way to bring back a name (and revive a brand), but I digress. It’s not clear yet whether the new MOPARs are going to be headed into fleet service.
As this episode from the TV show Hunter proves, not only would a rejuvenated Fury dominate the police fleet scene, the brown ones would absolutely fly over city streets. But enough with the jokes, because police cars in America need to be made a certain way to succeed.
And “making” doesn’t just involve a conversion to column-shift transmissions and center console deletions; the body style in question is likely a red herring in any discussion. The biggest issue is making a good police vehicle for everyone who will interact with it from the cradle to the grave auction lot.
The basics of fleet management (police, or otherwise) are sprinkled across the internet, and here’s one example that tickled my fancy. For the automotive enthusiast, we need to remember that max performance is only one part of the equation. Taxpayers likely care about fuel economy and the cost to acquire. Fleet managers care about the cost of repair and the availability of parts. The end user cares about ergonomics and durability.
There’s a lot to balance, and we’ve barely scratched the surface. If a company does it wrong for one of these stakeholders, they make the news for all the wrong reasons. Both my earliest and most recent recollections unfortunately center around Chrysler/Stellantis, the first is credited to the Dodge Intrepid. That particular cruiser had a bad habit of its brakes catching on fire. Poke around social media and even more servicing issues surface.
The recent issue with Stellantis is more troubling, as their service after the sale (here, here) is lacking. Do the “fleet thing” wrong and the media will take the taxpayer/customer’s side.
But do it right and you are bulletproof in the long term: The Crown Victoria was embroiled in its own fire-related controversy after high-energy impacts, until it was not. These suits were quickly, loudly dropped when Ford squeezed the affected fleet managers out of the new car pipeline, some of whom didn’t even know they were suing Ford for product liability. I am not taking Ford’s side on this (I promise!), instead I’m suggesting they provided the best vehicle for law enforcement personnel at the time. (The loss of life was tragic, we can hope that new parking guidelines minimize risk in these high-energy impacts.)
Again, there is a lot to balance when it comes to Police fleets. I wouldn’t be surprised if law enforcement officers prefer a two-box SUV/Crossover design over a three-box for their duties outside of high-speed highway pursuits. And there’s little doubt that police departments are using other vehicles for lower stress operations, like how the NYPD uses the Toyota Camry for unmarked and traffic-management vehicle duties.
While we all would love to distill the police fleet discussion to the most macho of pursuit vehicles, they are but one cog in a complicated system. We may never know the extent of law enforcement’s souring to the Dodge Durango after what happened last year, but it’s clear that V-8 power won’t sway fleet managers from their love of the Ford Explorer. Or perhaps even the Toyota Camry?
Of course, the Piston Slap column never ends with my thoughts. You get the final say in the comments, and I now formally request your thoughts on what it takes to successfully sell police cars!
Have a question you’d like answered on Piston Slap? Send your queries to pistonslap@hagerty.com—give us as much detail as possible so we can help! Keep in mind this is a weekly column, so if you need an expedited answer, please tell me in your email.
Having many friends in the law enforcement are here are the keys they have expressed.
In the past power and durability.
Today costs to buy and costs to maintain.
Back when the Caprice and Crown dominated they could get power and durability cheap.
Today the Explorer is sold cheap. Not much power and less durability but they are cheap.
The vehivcles most like are the Chargers and more are moving to the Tahoe. It is a bit more expensive but fast and durable.
At one point the police department in the 70’s here in Akron Ohio went to Diplomats. Cheap to buy. Well people would not pull over and the 318 just could not keep up.
They ended up rebuilding the Nova F41 cars they had with 350 Chevys for the traffic division. Complete rebuilds till Chevy went to the Caprice.
Economics plus a big role and Ford sell many Explorers but make little on them. They try to make it in volume. Many departments like the low cost if the v6 fuel mileage but durability and repairs are up.
Many Department’s are required to buy American built or even American brands Today too.
You see a lot of Chargers? I haven’t seen them en masse in a long time, down here it seems like everyone moved to Tahoes and Explorers in the last five years. My local constabulary probably has as many Crown Vics as they do Chargers now. Don’t know why, but will openly speculate that its the dreaded “Hemi Tick.”
State police here have them but they are now migrating to the Tahoes here since the Chargers are gone,
I watch On Patrol live on weekends and you can see how these models work.
The Chargers are fast. The Tahoe’s keep up well. The Explorers then to get out run unless they got the larger engine. Many departments go first the more economical engine.
As for pitting I seldom see an Explorer pit. The reason is they have a habit of flipping. One night one went over hard.
The Crown Vic here are now taxis. They used them up and put them out yo pasture. Rust got to them. The Sheriff really wanted them over the Explorers but again production died.
The officers do like the extra space of the SUV models.
The Sheriff department did get one high powered Explorer and it was tuned. It was fast but used limitedly. My neighbor was an officer and loved it.
The Mustang is coming back with a law enforcement model. That is good as Ford needs more volume on the Mustang as sakes are really weak. But they lose utility and pitting in a light car may be difficult.
Hi Sajeev,
I worked for a preeminent manufacturer of pursuit tires that came OE on all pursuit vehicles and many have mentioned the Michigan and California pursuit test facilities where all vehicles and tires are evaluated – definitely a great place to begin your in-depth story search.
Also, I used to speak to the detachment fleet managers and they shared the patrol officers lamented the switch away from Crown Vic’s because they were so roomy. The federal RCMP stayed away from Chargers for this purpose – once you get your vest, gun belt, insulated coats (in winter), etc., you couldn’t get in the Chargers. They’ve gone Explorers and Tahoes mostly.
However municipal fleets in my area are mostly Charger. Surely the operators have the same complaints, but maybe that’s the difference between Federal and Municipal budgets?
Great piece!
Thank you for sharing, Rob. It is interesting to hear the challenges the police will experience up north, as things like insulated coats having an impact on cabin comfort makes a lot of sense! Thank you for sharing.
I’m assuming since you’re speaking of reviving a brand you meant Plymouth Fury not Chrysler. So maybe cut the difference. Introducing the new Dodge Coronet Pursuit.
Nah, I meant Chrysler Fury. It’s a great name to bring back (if they did it to the Swinger, why not?) and Chrysler needs a hit real bad these days…otherwise it will die off like Plymouth!
Just go back to Chrysler Enforcer or Newport for a 4 door and Fury on the 2 door with 300 for performance.
I like this plan!
To sell them they need a cop motor, a 440 cubic inch plant, it’s got cop tires, cop suspensions, cop shocks
Needs a cigarette lighter
Informative reading, Sajeev, I’m enjoying the learning. Having spent nearly my entire post-puberty-driving-life AVOIDING cop cars, I’m admitting here that I know very little about them…
And I have barely scratched the surface! Maybe one day I will interview a police car fleet manager…
That would be interesting, especially if it’s with the Arkansas/Georgia/Florida state patrol. They seem to really enjoy their Chargers, as seen by the Youtube videos.
Part of training for Arkansas State Patrol is two days at a bumper car ride. They smash everything.
Contact the Michigan State Police. They yearly do the most complete testing of all models. Most departments use their data. Also the automakers work with them.
They can really give the details.
That’s a great idea. Hmmm, I smell a larger story here.
I you talk to the MSP regarding pursuit cars, ask about the Ferguson system tested in 1959 or so. Fact or legend?
So does be Los Angeles Sheriff’s Department. But the MIchigan State Police evaluation is the most recognized. .
You write it, We’ll read it.
Sajeev- Fair enough but I’m still going Coronet or more accurately Coronet 440. Remember that designation did not mean a 440 cube, even though many assumed it did. So with some longing for the good old days that cheat would probably work today and seems in line with their current marketing.- ‘ All’s fair in love war and advertising.’
Some additional info I wrote several years ago about what it takes to make a Pursuit vehicle worthy of the designation:
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2019/06/the-fastest-cop-car-is-not-a-car/
Great article! Thanks Sajeev!
Thank you for reading!
My daily driver is a 2011 Crown Vic Police Interceptor. It is not the fastest car, but it is very durable and has aged well.
Retired police Sgt here. I can tell you what the worst police car was. The FWD V6 Chevy impalas. 180hp. Add the console the radar unit shotgun and equipment and it was even slower. Decent turning radius, but that’s about it.
I know a few departments that would welcome a modernized Crown Victoria to come back. That’s not happening unless maybe RWD sedan makes a comeback with Ford.
Even if it came back, it wouldn’t have the simplicity and inherent durability. That era is gone.
I wouldn’t say that was the least informative or least objective article I’ve ever read about cars in general, and police cars specifically, but it’s sure close.
Retired Police Sgt here. 29 years and I drove models from 89-2020, for a large Sheriffs Office Fleet
89 Dodge Diplomats: So slow our Fleet Manager talked the bosses into Edelbrock manifolds and 4bbl carbs. Still slow
87-90 Caprice: Comfly, handled well. Chevys big mistake was not putting the 5.7 Tuned Port Motor in it.
94 Caprice: Thank You Jesus, lets catch bad guys again
95 Crown Vic: Can I just call in sick again
1998-2004 Crown Vics: improved, bulletproof. Our Fleet Manager was so upset when they cancelled it. The car jumped curbs, railroad tracks with minimal damage.
2004 Caprice: You aint getting away from a fleet of Caprices with well trained drivers. 163mph top speed. But they were cramped with the gun belt, equipment.
2004-2020: Ford Explorer; I did not want to give up my Caprice, but Senior Officers, Sgts got new cars every year or two. The Explorer was non Ecoboost, yet as the Michigan State Police testers stated, “Deceptively Fast”
I thought we would blow transaxles up like crazy, but we never did.
I never drove a Charger, because my Agency had the contract to Fleet Manage other agencies Chargers and they had lots of brake issues, etc. i drove an SSP Mustang in training, but cant really write abput it. We had no need for them and it isnt safe to put a prisoner in the front seat for transport.
Somewhere out on 290, in the middle of nowhere about halfway between Houston and Austin, there’s a used car dealer who exclusively sells police cars. I think he’d be a great interview candidate with insight about what models have held up well and which ones have not.
This is good to know. I will keep that in mind, thank you.
Here in the Land of Lincoln (AKA Land of Crooked Politicians-no, wait, “crooked” and “politician” is redundant…), state bid rules. The state’s Central Management Services department goes out for bid on thousands of bulk-purchase items used by the state. Low bid wins, including squad cars. Bid specs include pursuit package and little else.
In 41 years, most of my cars have been state bid. The Diplomats (81-83, 85-87) were durable but slow off the line (reasonable for urban use) and severely short on space (driver’s space was good but unusably small back seat and trunk. 84 Impalas were quick off the line and roomy. They were also very nimble, but the Chevette buckets would collapse, and they absolutely tore through transmissions and camshafts. 87-90 square Impala/Caprice squads were a delight: quick, nimble, roomy, and reliable. 91-93 Caprice carried on that theme, minus the nimble. 94-96 Caprice had the LT1 motor. They were typical Caprice plus really fast, but the tail got light over 100 mph. By 120, they were a real handful. Then came the Crown Vic’s. A real disappointment after the Caprice. They were tighter on interior space and considerably slower. 97-02 had truly vicious handling: understeer, understeer, understeer, until all of a sudden not and the a** end would come loose. We had three severe sideways crashes with those cars and that’s probably why I never liked them. 03-11 CVPI had a Watts linkage rear suspension which resolved the handling issue. We had timing chain, intake plenum, and HVAC problems scattered throughout the CVPI period but overall they were durable and reliable. We learned that the trunk-related crash and burn could be resolved by keeping the deep well of the trunk empty (anything in that well was driven forward in a rear crash and into the gas tank) so we blocked that off. Huge loss of trunk space but no loss of life. 12-19 Explorers: roomy and reliable, but durability is an issue. The MacPherson strut front ends don’t hold up, intake plenums crack, and water pumps are an engine-out replacement project. Slower off the line than a CVPI but the Explorer wins by 40 mph on out to the 130 mph governor (CVPI was 127 as I recall, something about driveshaft whip). Our 22-24 Explorers are roomy but really slow off the line and the ride is horrible (though the handling is very much improved). The 10 speed trans seems like it can never find the right gear, and shifts are really hard most of the time. They’re also coarse and noisy. Reliability is good so far.
Seat time in Tahoes is too limited too really comment though I have heard they suffer from failed roller lifters like the Hemi and Pentastar. Haven’t driven Charger or Durango but my kid has. I know from owning a civilian Charger that they are so tight on space in every direction they remind me of the Diplomat so I can’t picture using one on the job, but he loves them. He also prefers the Durango over their Taurus and Explorer squads. The Mopars have also been more reliable (in their fleet) than the Fords.
I’m at the end of my career now so I’m sure the Explorers are the last I’ll drive. As far as cars from the past, well, eff the Crown Vic and reboot the 89 Caprice, just put the LT1 in it.
Talk about trying to keep maintenance costs low a friend of mine looked after a fleet of RCMP cars . Instead of sending the badly damaged cars to the wreckers he would store them in the back yard and instead of buying a new part he salvage parts off the wrecks he had. Saving the government money.